Q & A with Swami B. V. Tripurari
“Times change and with new information new opinions
form, and if they are spiritually reasonable, the task for devotees is
to support them with scriptural logic—sastra-yukti—or the logic that
supports the essential conclusions of revelation.”
Q. Is being gay a sin?
A. I don't think that any reasonable person would
consider “being gay” sinful in as much as the distinction between sexual
orientation and sexual behavior is understood. Sometimes people refer
to biblical passages that they say condemn homosexuality but even
Christian theologians have offered plausible interpretations to the
contrary. For example, regarding the often-quoted verse (Romans 1:26-27)
where the apostle Paul denounced homosexual behavior as unnatural, one
distinguished Christian theologian comments, “No doubt Paul was unaware
of the distinction between sexual orientation, over which one has
apparently very little choice, and sexual behavior, over which one does.
He seemed to assume that those whom he condemned were heterosexuals who
were acting contrary to nature, “leaving,” “giving up,” or “exchanging”
their regular sexual orientation for that which was foreign to them.
Paul knew nothing of the modern psychosexual understanding of
homosexuals as persons whose orientation is fixed early in life, or
perhaps even genetically in some cases. For such persons, having
heterosexual relations would be acting contrary to nature, “leaving,”
“giving up,” or “exchanging” their natural sexual orientation for one
that was unnatural to them.” (Rev. Dr. Walter Wink, Professor of
Biblical Interpretation, Auburn Theological Seminary)
Hindu texts, on the other hand, are relatively silent
on the issue, and when they do discuss homosexuality, it is in relation
to heterosexual brahmanas, or priests, indulging in homosexual liaisons.
The Hindu dharma sastra describes such behavior as a minor sin;
however, it is hardly possible to make a determination as to the
religious status of homosexuality in today's world on the basis of a few
isolated statements from the dharma sastra. Nor will mere reference to
Srimad Bhagavatam's statements concerning spiritually correct “celibate
householder sexuality” or the Bhagavad-gita's identification of divinity
with dharmic sexuality, serve conclusively in condemning homosexuality.
Indeed, wholesale condemnation of homosexuality on the basis of Hindu
scripture is quite difficult, and given the amount of information on the
subject that we have today, which was not available even fifty years
ago, such condemnation would not in my opinion be spiritually correct or
compassionate.
Therefore, my conviction is that monogamous homosexual
relationships are as viable a position from which to cultivate
spiritual life as are monogamous heterosexual relationships, and I
believe that despite what my guru said decades ago, he would hold the
same opinion were he with us today. Since he was with us, a wealth of
insight into the nature of homosexuality has come to light, so much that
any devotee would do well to carefully consider it when forming his or
her opinion on the subject.
Times change and with new information new
opinions form, and if they are spiritually reasonable, the task for
devotees is to support them with scriptural logic—sastra-yukti—or the
logic that supports the essential conclusions of revelation.
Q. What really bothers me about today's homosexuals
is how they wave their gay flag and require everybody to approve of
their sexuality. Why should the world appreciate their parade of wrongly
directed lust?
A. You might think differently if you were born gay
and had to undergo the kind of discrimination that homosexuals have been
experiencing for centuries, what to speak of the psychological trauma
of “coming out” in our largely homophobic society. The fact is that
homosexuality would still be a criminal offence in the United States if
it were not for the courage of gay activists. Their flag waving is a cry
to be allowed to be what they are without being attacked, jailed, or
discriminated against, which was the norm here in America for so long.
What's more, in some countries people are still being executed for
homosexuality. Sexuality is a huge part of a person's life. To be forced
to live in a society where one is routinely mistreated because of his
or her natural occurring sexuality is something I would not would wish
on anyone.
Q. I am a Hindu and I believe that homosexuals
should seek reformation because scripture (the Bible) states that God is
not pleased with homosexual relations. The Kama sutra states that the
goal of kama, or lust, is procreation. Heterosexual relations serve this
purpose but homosexual relations serve only personal sense
gratification. Dharma means to accept one's duty in relation to society
and God, so how could homosexuality, which has nothing to do with
procreation, be considered in any way dharmic?
A. In the Hindu canon there is no condemnation of
homosexuality that I am aware of. You profess to be Hindu but are unable
to cite any of our scriptures to support your position, not one. Kama
sutra is not scripture but it does address homosexuality without
condemning it as you have done.
Ultimately everyone agrees that the sexual urge should
be harnessed, and different acaryas have tried to help their students
do so in different ways. In the mission of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati
Thakura, sexual activity was supposed to be restricted to married life,
but our Srila Prabhupada tried to establish a stricter standard, one
that permitted sex only for the purpose of procreation. However, the
vast majority of his disciples could not follow this standard. Thus in
some individual cases he sanctioned sex outside of procreation for
married couples. The point is that establishing a standard that students
can follow and that helps them to progressively harness this desire
constitutes sex that is dharmic and is thus arguably blessed—kamo 'smi.
Realistically, whether one is gay or straight this would be limiting
sexual activity to within a committed long-term relationship, doing so
for the purpose of making advancement in spiritual life.
Furthermore, we are not concerned with trying to
please God by following the complex rules of dharma because Krsna is not
concerned with this. He says, sarva-dharman parityajya: “Forgo all
concerns of dharma and take exclusive refuge in me. I will protect you
from all reactions. Do not fear.” Spontaneous love brought about by
devotion (bhakti) is the way to please Krsna, and homosexuality being a
naturally occurring minority phenomenon is no more an obstacle to bhakti
than is heterosexuality. Therefore, I encourage everyone regardless of
their sexual orientation to become devotees of Krsna and follow in the
footsteps of the residents of Vrindavana. This is the highest
dharma—prema dharma.
Regarding your proposal that homosexuals seek
reformation. As far back as 1948 sex researcher Alfred Kinsey attempted
to document patients who had been converted from homosexuality to
heterosexuality during therapy and could not find one whose sexual
orientation had been changed. Later, in 1973 the American Psychiatric
Association officially ceased classifying homosexuality as a disease,
and today's psychiatrists and psychologists almost never attempt to
change a person's sexual orientation. All this means that your notion of
converting homosexuals into heterosexuals will certainly be a failure.
Finally, just try to imagine growing up and finding
that when your young friends began to develop an attraction to the
opposite sex you found yourself developing a sexual attraction to the
same sex and had learned that you were a queer who could be justifiably
beaten up and that there would be no shoulder to cry on at home.
Employers (if you could get hired) would fire you if they detected your
sexual attraction, which is not something that one can easily hide or
that heterosexuals hide (indeed they are encouraged to celebrate it!).
Then imagine that you had to pursue your sexuality in the back alley or
at an illegal bar and thus ended up being the shady person that society
accused you of being and gave you little opportunity of avoiding. The
world is still just understanding that they did this to millions of
children. Think about it.
Q. Swami, from your writing on the issue of
homosexuality it appears that you want to encourage gay people to become
devotees. I think that sounds broadminded but I think that the way you
are doing it flies in the face of the words of your guru Srila
Prabhupada, who was a great and wise man. I like to quote Prabhupada's
words on the topic verbatim, and I don't think doing so is
narrow-minded. What can possibly be wrong with just repeating what he
said? And what he said does not jive with your approach.
A. The difference between you and Srila Prabhupada is
very great. You may repeat what he said (kind of) but you have no
ability to change when new information is presented; information that is
much more readily available to you than it was to him. What new
information? That one born with a homosexual orientation has no choice
in the matter, a fact that has come to light only in recent decades.
Srila Prabhupada's views on this subject were informed by the prevailing
misinformation of his time. He similarly wrote that women were less
intelligent because their brain size was almost half that of men which
is another piece of misinformation that he attributed to Dr. Urquhart, a
professor at the institution he attended in Calcutta. However, unlike
you, Srila Prabhupada was able to significantly change his position when
new information was presented to him. Being incorrect at times is
normal, but what's egregiously incorrect is when a person simply ignores
new information and holds fast to outdated ideas despite of it.
Abraham Lincoln was also a great and wise man. He
brought about the abolition of slavery in America but he also felt that
black people should not be allowed to hold public office. Although once
nationally accepted, this idea has in our time been internationally
rejected. Still, history does not condemn Lincoln for his latter
position but rather lauds him for the former—freeing the slaves. By our
standards Srila Prabhupada was an even greater person; not because he
held some dated views on various social issues but because he was an
empowered pure devotee who was able to free sincere souls from the
bondage of material existence. This is what he should and ultimately
will be remembered and appreciated for, not for the few dated statements
he made about homosexuality.
Q. You say that you know of no passages in the Hindu
scriptures that condemn homosexuality, but in his purport to Srimad
Bhagavatam verse 3.20.26 Srila Prabhupada writes: “It appears here that
the homosexual appetite of males for each other is created in this
episode of the creation of the demons by Brahma. In other words, the
homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demoniac and is not for
any sane male in the ordinary course of life.” How do you explain this?
A. The verse says that when Lord Brahma created the
demons they approached him for sex but were ultimately lured away by the
twilight, which appeared to them as a beautiful young woman. The text
goes on to elaborate on the alluring qualities of youthful women and how
attraction to them clouds the mind of the unintelligent. In that
section of the Bhagavatam, only one verse mentions the demons' sexual
attraction to a male, while the ten following verses elaborate on their
sexual attraction to a female. Overall, the demons being discussed were
obviously more sexually attracted to a woman than they were to a man
(Brahma) which indicates that they were not “gay” as we understand the
term today.
It is also worth mentioning that Prabhupada never
backed up his stance on homosexuality with any references from
scripture. Even in the purport cited, he does not say that the verse he
is commenting on says that homosexuality is demoniac. Instead, using the
word “appears,” which indicates a degree of uncertainty, he merely
offers his own opinion. Elsewhere when discussing the subject he also
only cites reasoning that demonstrates that his opinion was based on
misinformation. For example, in one place he says that homosexuality is
not even found in the animal world; a notion that we now know is
incorrect. In this case Srila Prabhupada made an inaccurate statement in
support of his position, one that he must have learned from someone
else. If we are to take his words as absolute in all respects, as some
devotees claim that we must, then we are forced to deny the proven fact
that homosexuality is found in the animal species. If not, we must face
the fact that the example given by Srila Prabhupada was mistaken.
If the
example used in support of one's reasoning is proven wrong, then one's
position on the issue itself is brought into question, especially if
that position is not clearly supported by scripture. So to disagree with
Srila Prabhupada's opinion on homosexuality is not to pick and choose
whimsically, but to do so in the very way that he taught us to do, which
is to consider the issue according to sastra. In one discussion of the
subject Srila Prabhupada even said, “One should take as it is enjoined
in the sastras.” This is what I have done, and as I have already stated,
Hindu texts are relatively silent on the issue, so it is very difficult
to condemn homosexuality on the basis of sastra.
In conclusion, you have made it clear that you feel
homosexual relationships established with a view to progress in
spiritual life are not to be accepted in the same way that similar
heterosexual relationships are. Your arguments on the subject are
basically Bible-based religious fundamentalism, as you could not present
any verses from Hindu scripture in support of them. As for Srila
Prabhupada, if it were possible I would welcome a discussion with him on
this topic and I feel confidant that in light of present times and
information available he would be willing to alter his position in
agreement with mine. After all, in regards to his gay disciple Upendra
he did exactly that: he sanctioned a committed homosexual relationship
with a view to help his disciple progress in spiritual life.
See also:
The Essence of Varnasrama Dharma
